Talk:Initiative
Content needed Can someone please help me out with this effect? Lost for the wording of it. Plus is it only used for working out who get the first attack?? -- Pstarky *Yes the SDR does has have the missing bites. :) -- Pstarky 05:22, 12 Jun 2005 (PDT) Special initiative actions There is no special initiative actions page.-- 22:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC) *That appears to have been left over from a copy from the SRD. --The Krit 01:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC) Initiative and casting spells The note about timestops is wrong. There is no initiative for casting a spell until the spell is cast, spellscript is triggered and function SignalEvent(EventSpellCastAt is signalized on target. This will trigger initiative for the first time, so initiative has no effect on casters. Ranged attacks works similar, since you dont need to come closer in order to attack whether you win or lose initiative you attack first. Also there are situations where initiative doesnt work even in melee which is when you ambush a creature from corner - in this situation the creature is wandering around location as she can't see you, but you get close to her before AI tells her to attack you and therefore you can get sneak attack and you attack first no matter of initiative. The creatur turns around and attack back when the first attack roll is made but no sooner. Also invisible/hidden character attack first no matter of initiative. --ShaDoOoW 12:30, November 5, 2011 (UTC) * Others insist that initiative does matter in a time stop vs. time stop duel, and I am not about to tell them they are wrong without testing it. (Maybe I will get around to it, maybe not.) As for the rest of what you wrote, what is your point? You are saying that initiative does not matter, and the article says that initiative does not matter, so what are you getting at? --The Krit 13:47, November 5, 2011 (UTC) :* Simple to test, default Time Stop doesn't even trigger initiative, a custom timestop with GetFirstNextInShape loop, custom effect and added signalevent does but after the spell is cast. As for rest my point is that I thought these informations might be relevant to the page to make it more detailed. --ShaDoOoW 08:43, November 8, 2011 (UTC) ::* Why does the article need to be more detailed? Too many details can confuse rather than enlighten. The only reason I singled out sneak attacks and time stop for special mention is because I have repeatedly seen them mentioned as reasons for trying to improve initiative. --The Krit 20:26, November 8, 2011 (UTC) :::*Good that you do realize that this wiki start to be overfilled by a notes of unsignificant meaning and its sometimes hard to find the relevant informations. If you feel the current article is accurate, then ok, though I'm planning to change it significaly as I found some new informations about initiative. However I need more time to make proper tests. After I do this, I'm also going to remove the note about timestops as thats clearly incorrect. --ShaDoOoW 12:49, November 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::* New information? You mean there is a case where initiative does have some effect on gameplay? --The Krit 17:11, November 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::* Im still not sure and I have to make more tests and debugs, but it looks that yes. Seems that initiative can apply at least to the next rounds as the first round starts mostly the one who react first, but later rounds it looks like initiative has effect. --ShaDoOoW 17:32, November 9, 2011 (UTC) :::::* And this effect is enough to change the outcome of the battle? Just changing the order in which attacks are made is not enough, since all attacks in a flurry are made before the damage from those attacks is dealt out (as already mentioned in the article). --The Krit :::::* Ok I tested it enough. Even if you attack first due to to the fact that you are ranged and your target is melee in distance or you ambush the enemy, the next round the attack order will match the initiative rolls. Even though flurries are made before damage is applied it still has real effect if we are talking about the two combatants who has only 1 attack per round (possibly it could work even with two attacks). In that case the first attacker deals the damage before the other try to attack. --ShaDoOoW 22:59, November 9, 2011 (UTC) :::::* I made some additional tests with a character with 5attacks. I took a str based character and I fought a high dex, all initiative feats zombie with a 5attacks as well. I ambushed her from corner so I started combat despite my initiative roll was 15 (I couldn't seen zombie's initiative roll, but was definitely higher). While the first flurry in round happened simultaneously and the damage was done after the second combatant rolled attack, the second flurry did not. Combatant who attacked first performed second (and later third) flurry for a long time before second combatant as the damage from this flurry was done before second combatant was allowed to perform his flurry. In second combat round, the attack order has changed per initiative and zombie attacked first. The damage was again done before my character could perform his own flurry. Flurries of two combatant are simply not performed in the same time and thus initiative has an real effect. --ShaDoOoW 21:20, November 10, 2011 (UTC) * Time stop portion removed since you claim to have tested it. (I still don't see this subject to be important enough for me to bother testing it, regardless of how "simple" the test might be.) However, I would like to point out something you have a history of misreading -- the article did not say that initiative did matter in a time stop duel, only that it might, which leaves open the possibility that it does not matter. --The Krit 20:32, November 9, 2011 (UTC)